The .350 Rem. The original .30-30 load used a 160-grain bullet and topped out at 1,970 feet per second (fps) at the muzzle, according to Frank C. Barnes Cartridges of the World. Todays offerings have improved on that original design, and most modern loads use a bullet between 150 and 170 grains and scoot along at 2,300 fps. Of the Winchester cartridges, only the .30-30 Win. Winchester offered .351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180 figure of .256 versus the 200-grain .358s S.D. The .30/30s dominance as the king of lever-cartridges is also clear when you look at available ammunition. As many hunters know, the Remington Model 600 carbine, which was introduced in 1964, was one of the first short, light, bolt-action rifles to find success with deer hunters. Admittedly though, I was cheering for the .35 Rem. Savage Arms has announced the newest model in its series of straight-pull rifles, the Impulse Driven Hunter. It is believed that. If the .35 Rem. The .30-30 Winchester has the unique claim of being the first cartridge designed to run on both black powder and the revolutionary smokeless powder. The .356 Win. The .35 Remington was releasedas one of a quartet of rimless cartridges from Remingtonin 1906; it is a rimless affair designed for their Model 8 autoloading rifle. At 300 yards, it has 19 percent more energy than the .300 Win. The .30-30 only produces about 10 foot-pounds (ft.-lbs.) Following the sale of Remington Outdoor Company's assets in September 2020, Vista Outdoor purchased Remington Ammunition. Yes, there was a .35 Win., introduced in 1903, although it's commonly thought that the .35 Rem. Technically, the .35 Rem. It was predictable that the .356 Win. A rifle chambered in this caliber will let you practice more frequently and stay at the range longer than one in the .35 Rem. The .35 Remington load using the 150-grain Core-Lokt obtains just about the same muzzle velocity, with a bullet having a lower B.C. Published Mar 19, 2021 3:00 PM EDT. Ill bet its been awhile since those cartridges have been seen in a hunting camp. Neither produce much felt recoil, which makes them perfect for lighter rifles and newer hunters. vs. .300 WSM.223 Remington vs. .22-250 Remington. gunswizard. The best answer to the question might be to just get one of each. Mag. plowed fresh ground. The .351 SL proved popular with police and security forces as the only chambering available in the model 1907, and was used by France in both world wars. These seemingly small differences added up to a significant difference in power and effectiveness on game between the two cartridges. Thats a question I just dont understand. Join F&S+ to read exclusive stories by your favorite writers. Still, much like the old man who can rattle your teeth with a punch, appearances can be deceiving. all were more powerful-and may have been excellent hunting cartridges-but they are gone; rejected by the shooting public and banished to the junk heap of obsolescence. Driving a 160-grain jacketed bullet to a velocity of just over 2300 fps, it represented a fantastic hunting cartridge for its time. Remington introduced the .35 about 10 years later in 1906 alongside their Model 8 semi-automatic rifle. It is probably best restricted to use on animals of not more than about 50 pounds live weight, such as small predators. We've got you covered. .257 Roberts vs. .250-3000 Savage.270 Winchester vs. .280 Remington.35 Whelen vs. 9.3x62mm Mauser.416 Rigby vs. .416 Remington Magnum.308 Winchester vs. .30-06 Springfield.22 Nosler vs. .224 Valkyrie.300 Win. Enter the 350 Legend. vs. .458 Lott7mm Rem. Yet, that bore diameter produces some of the best hunting cartridges available. I have one, and I like it a lot. Most ammunition makers have a 200-grain load, and Remington also has a 150-grain load with a muzzle velocity of 2300 f.p.s. Scoped and out to 350 yards the 308 has it hands down. can only be had in Federals traditional, lead-core Power-Shok line. Traditionally, the tubular magazines of the popular lever-rifles restricted the cartridges to using round or flat-point bullets, to avoid the possibility of magazine detonation, should a pointed spitzer bullet hit the primer of the cartridge ahead of it in the magazine. Mag., and I think thats the only current production rifle in that cartridge. Soon after, the classic 150- and 170-grain loads took root, and due to the tubular magazines of so many popular rifles, round nose bullets were employed. They include both the AccuBond and the Partition 225-grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s. On the other hand, if youre looking for a lever-gun cartridge for big game hunting, survival, and even self-defensesort of a general-purpose riflethe .30/30 is the way to go. But ever since the mid-1950s when Marlin started chambering their Model 336 in .35 Remington, theres been a Hatfield & McCoy like feud over whether it was a better lever-gun cartridge than the .30/30 Winchester. Ballistics vs. .35 Rem. Loved by gun guys and rejected by the huddled masses, this is perhaps the most underappreciated cartridge of them all. Lyman mold #350319. A main strength of the 35 Remington not shown in the ballistics tables is its energy transfer shock power (35 caliber and 200 grain bullet). zero-we see that contrary to popular belief, a 35-caliber can be a long-range cartridge. A 35 Rem or .358 Win would have been perfect for the situation. I tried three of Winchesters five loads at SHOT Shows Industry Day at the Range, and all were a pleasure to shoot and plenty accurate. It used to be that you couldnt find an eastern deer camp without a .35 Remington in it. Make sure you follow The Big Game Hunting Blog onFacebook,Instagram,Twitter, andYouTube. The trouble is, they didnt sell. If zeroed at 200 yards, their 160-grain FTX .30/30 Winchester load will drop 12 inches at 300 yards. The .35 Rem. The .351 Winchester Self-Loading (also called .351 SL or .351 WSL) is an American rifle cartridge designed in 1906. clearly more powerful than the .30-30. up to 0.358 inches and dubbed it the poor mans magnum.. Copyright 2023 Big Game Hunting Adventures LLC | All Rights Reserved. Its cheap, easy to shoot, and most importantly, effective on whitetail in close quarters. Remington currently lists a Model 7 rifle with a 20-inch barrel; todays version of the 600 in .350 Rem. is a wonderful cartridge, but nobody buys them. A major online retailer only lists four loads for the .35 Remington but lists 35 different options for the .30/30. This stumpy little cartridge was introduced to the hunting public in 1908 and is the only surviving member of the early class of Remington rimless cartridges. On the other hand, the hardest hitting 35 Remington load is the 220-grain Heavy load from Buffalo Bore. Winchester sold both soft point and FMJ ammunition for the .351 SL cartridge over the years. Winchester action. Calling and shooting predators is one of the things that helps hunters get from the end of the fall seasons to when the turkeys start gobbling. Bottles & 12-oz. .351 WSL is not nearly as powerful as the .35 Remington cartridge offered in the 351 Winchester Self-Loading Ammunition for Sale. .30-30 Win. If you were to vote for the .30-30 Winchester based on its higher Sectional Density valuesthe 170-grain .308 bullet has an S.D. As much as its a .30/30 vs. .35 thing, it might be just as much an East vs. West, thing. cast bullets to .352". This could be the most frequently debated rifle cartridge matchup on the planet. Deriving its name from a combination of the caliber and the powder charge (.30 caliber, 30 grains of powder) the .30-30 was introduced in 1895, in the John Browning-designed Model 1894 Winchester. and the 6.5 mm Rem. Mag. Karl Brauneis, Forester, Lander, Wyoming, Also shooting a 35 Remington from a model 600 Remington bolt action rifle and very seldom ever hear It shoots well and is light and easy to carry while hunting. Both come in light, handy rifles that are a pleasure to carry in the forested mountains and wooded areas where these guns shine. The most popular cartridges for hunting and even target shooting begin and end with the thirties. The .35 Remington uses the 180- and 200-grain .358caliber bullets, and while light-for-caliber, they are effective at the ranges a .35 Remington is used, which is usually inside of 150 yards. grains of IMR 4227 for a MV of 1751 fps. It never has been and never will be a good long range cartridge, but if anything,modern loadings using high quality bullets have further improved the performance of the .35 Remington on big game at short to moderate range. Thats what I did. Nosler offers the .350 Rem. Winchester still offers ammunition, but the guns are history. Chambered in everything from the 22 Long Rifle to the 45/70 Government, theres nothing on the planet a lever gun cannot handle. loaded with a 180-grain Oryx bullet to the .358 Norma Mag. Along with the rifle, they introduced four new rimless cartridges: the .25 Remington, the .30 Remington, the .32 Remington, and the .35 Remington. I own several rifles in this cartridge and all my .35 Whelen rifles are accurate. But trajectory is a foolish way to compare cartridges typically used at distances inside 150 yards. From 100 yards it was tracked with 1861 foot-pounds of awesome power. to achieve its potential. Winchester introduced the .351 WSL in 1907 for their Model Among the .35 caliber cartridges popular in the United States, the .358 offered a definite step up in performance; the .35 Remingtonthat popular woods rifleis much slower than the .358, and though the .35 Whelen has been among us since 1922, it would remain a wildcat until 1988. Jacketed bullet diameter is .351", not I have a 35 Remington and a 35 whelen and they are good hunting for big game. its all about money. FMJ bullet at 1,870 f.p.s. That is quite a few cartridges considering that there is not a single best selling rifle cartridge in . Using the same case head diameter of the .223 Remington at a length of 1.71-inch, the 350 Legend uses a .357-inch diameter bullet, for a combination that is very easy on the shoulder while being effective downrange. Sure, we experiment a bit with other bore sizes, but in the end it always comes back to the .30 caliber. However, they are high pressure loads and should only be used in modern firearms, such as the Marlin 336, that are in good condition. My mom made the best elk pot roast, Outstanding article. The .30-30 has an even clearer edge when it comes to availability of firearms. Which is the more useful cartridge? The ammunition hung on a while longer, but eventually Big Green abandoned her babies and stopped making both cartridges. He gave me 200 trade in on the 35 whelen barrel and the 358 was 295 plus shipping. Mag. Top Brands available; Federal, Hornady, Malaysian, Alexander, Tula, Wolf, Privi Partizan, Gemtech, Aguila, PMC, Selier & Bellot, Magtech, LSK Lapua, Geco. It is capable of driving a. Its thought to be the rifle legendary stock detective Tom Horn used for his assassinations, and African professional hunter Wally Johnson even used a .30/30 with success on lions. and .32 Rem. As Barnes puts it, the .35 Rem. Why cant we love the .35? Versatility is also close since neither cartridge is particularly versatile. Lets take a look at the two champions of the deer woods, and perhaps finish the conversation started three-plus decades ago. The long accepted story was that James V. Howe developed the cartridge in 1922 and named it in honor of his friend, gunwriter Col. Townsend Whelen. Marlin offers the Model 336 in both .30-30 and .35 Rem., but its unclear whether Ruger (which recently purchased Marlin) will continue the line. cases and .357-cal. It has accounted for almost all, if not all, North American game species, and the famous African PH Wally Johnson used one to kill lions in his early years in Mozambique. 25 yard broadside shot with his 35 Remington put it down in thick brush. Mag. Since it had no competitor at the time, and since it filled an important medium bore niche, the .35 Remington quickly caught on with hunters in the United States. I wont pretend to solve Sign in to access your profile, save content and more. So, which one comes out on top in a head-to-head matchup? G. gunswizard. Decades of experience with handguns and holsters have given the author some excellent insights into the most popular designs. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. Remington introduced the Remington Auto-Loading Rifle (later known as the Remington Model 8) in 1906. Thanks for your support. My first was a Winchester Model 94AE XTR in .30-30 Winchester, that timeless rimmed cartridge that has accounted for innumerable amounts of game. Dont be fooled by its somewhat anemic looking ballistics on paper when compared to newer cartridges sporting fancy pointed tips and blazing fast velocities. Wont pretend to solve Sign in to access your profile, save content and more major online retailer lists... 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Purchased Remington ammunition own several rifles in this caliber will let you practice more frequently stay... The thirties at the range longer than one in the forested mountains and wooded where.